Mautic Community Forums

Meeting notes Tuesday 28th July

Hi @here ! I’ll be running the meeting today as Norman is on vacation and Dennis is getting ready to start his too! :palm_tree:

This is an asynchronous Slack meeting, you’ll have 24h to participate in topics listed in threads and we’ll report the whole content of this meeting in the Mautic Forums.Feel free to share your opinion, suggestions and give your contribution by taking ownership of certain topics!

0️⃣ Introductions - Your chance to say hello! Let us know who you are, where you are based and how you are (or would like to be) involved with this team?

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Hi folks, I’m the Project Lead for Mautic and based in the UK. I’m here to help in whatever way I can! :mautibot:
Dennis Ameling (he/him) Dennis here, Assistant Team Lead in the Product team. Based in NL :netherlands:

1️⃣ Review the notes from the last meeting

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Notes are here:, 2.16.3 all released in addition to 3.0.2 :tada:

2️⃣ Review progress on Jira sprint

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Jira board here: - shout if you need an invite!

2️⃣ . 1️⃣ [TPROD-6] 3.1 Triage (tied in with [TPROD-47] Define 3.1.0 milestone)

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) We have a huge volume of PR’s (129 currently!) that are tagged to this release, as it is the first feature release since 2.16.0.We have a lot to do if we want to get these all merged - and one of the big things is making sure that we test on Mautic 3.x as some may not be relevant or the earlier tests may be invalid.I came across several which still needed to be rebased, for example, and several have got conflicts and the original author is not responding.:star2: Would you like to help us work through these PR’s as part of a small team? :star2: Ideally you will need to have a good familiarity with Git, and have 1-2 hours a week that you could dedicate to this.
Ruth Cheesley (she/her)
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) @Michael see above!

2️⃣ . 2️⃣ TPROD-4 Clearing up 2.x legacy issues/PR’s in Github

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) @Norman Pracht and myself have been working through the issues and PR’s to determine whether they are still relevant for Mautic 3.This is an epic (and often quite boring!) job - so far we have got down from around 800 issues to 575 but there is still work to do.We have decided to close any issues that do not have a response within 14 days - we will be a bit more lenient with PR’s but we are working toward 14 days being the default for an unresponsive author - it generally takes into account absences due to vacation and it is a reversible decision - we can always re-open the PR or issue.This will help us to keep on top of things and mean we can much easier see what we need to prioritise.
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) :sparkles: Would you like to help with this? Read the later thread on creating a triage team! :sparkles: (edited)
Dennis Ameling (he/him) Thanks so much for your work on this, @Ruth Cheesley (she/her) and @Norman Pracht! :rocket:
Norman Pracht :heart:

2️⃣ . 3️⃣ TPROD-17 Review and finalise code governance updates

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) We have been working on some small tweaks to the current code governance processes as we come across blockers or points where the current governance process is unclear or insufficient.This is still a WIP and should be treated as such - :question: feel free to add comments/questions/suggestions! :question:!
Dennis Ameling (he/him) Apart from that I think the code governance process is ready to release, at least to have it on some publicly available page/website, so that we can start referring to it. We could add a note at the top that it is a “living document” that is subject to change, but this sounds like a great start
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) I agree, and I think that’s where we have to be really clear (and will probably need to transition existing issues/pr’s as we come across them to the new way of labelling them)
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) And yes, I’d also like to get this live!
Dennis Ameling (he/him) @Ruth Cheesley (she/her) OK I added it to the doc. Shall we put it live some time next week then? :slightly_smiling_face:
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) I need to finish up the flow chart but otherwise yes I think so :slightly_smiling_face:

2️⃣ . 4️⃣ TPROD-54 Work through PR backlog

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) We are making progress - see later thread on forming a triage team and the thread on Mautic 3.1 triage!
Dennis Ameling (he/him) Yes :rocket: hope we can get to <150 soon! :slightly_smiling_face:

2️⃣ . 5️⃣ TPROD-19 Look into CCPA and determine if Mautic needs to do anything to ensure compliance (comes into force 1 July)

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) I think that this is probably one for the Education @rteijeiro am but I wanted to flag it here in case there is anything that needs to be changed from the product standpoint.:bulb: Would you like to look into this and report back on your findings? Comment below! :bulb:
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Review the CCPA and check if there is anything in Mautic that might be non-compliant, or if there are specific workflows/processes we should suggest for people to deal with any actions/conditions arising as a result of it. For example if they have to find people from specific regions, if they need to follow a particular process to remove their details etc.
Dennis Ameling (he/him) @Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Do you know if Acquia is actively working on this? I think companies like Webmecanik aren’t affected for this as their customers are based in Europe, or is that a wrong assumption?
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) I can certainly take a look and see what information we have, but they will be looking at it from their SaaS perspective. I’ll do a bit of digging and see what I can find!
rteijeiro @Ruth Cheesley (she/her) do you need to review the task before moving it to DONE column? I already did it and assigned it to you. Let me know if there is a different process?
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Thanks!

2️⃣ . 6️⃣ TPROD-2 Remove retired contributors from admin rights to repositories

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) This is on me - I have the list of folk and need to work through with @Norman Pracht and @alanhartless to identify who needs to be removed. Will also take the opportunity to create a slightly better Github Organisation team structure as well, with clarity on access rights.
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) I have updated the issue with a link to the audit sheet
alanhartless @Ruth Cheesley (she/her) By “admin” do you mean literally admin or write access? I removed people from the organization who were past Mautic, Inc employees.

3️⃣ Items to add for the next sprint / to discuss

3️⃣ . 1️⃣ [TPROD-36] Add more browser acceptance tests for Mautic

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) As you will note from the issue, we have been doing some work on the testing framework to use for automated browser acceptance tests.I have poked about with all of the frameworks and talked at length with other open source communities and the team at Acquia about the different options.At Acquia there are several QE’s starting who have recommended using Cypress (not yet finalised). As there will be a good deal of activity coming from the team and it would be good to try where possible to align with that effort if at all possible.I added a lot of notes from my research in this doc: browser tools for Cypress were particularly impressive - allowing you to get the bare bones of a test script by pointing and clicking in the web browser itself.I think at present that given the popularity and extensibility of Cypress and the ease of use (I was up and running in about 20 minutes!) and great documentation, plus the fact that it integrates directly with all of our tooling at the moment, that it seems to be a good fit.Codecept.js. was a close second place for me - the community is a little smaller as it is a newer product but it has all of the nice features from Codeception but is JS based.Of course we could also continue with Codeception as well.If you have any thoughts please add them on the doc!We should aim to make a decision by no later than the next team meeting 2 weeks from today. (edited)
Dennis Ameling (he/him) Just commented the following in the document, just copying here for visibility: I actually think it makes sense to have a frontend testing framework in an actual frontend language (JavaScript) rather than PHP. It just makes more sense IMO (it’s easier to interact with the DOM I feel), but I can’t back this up with factual details at the moment. I do agree though that this will increase the barrier for developers who primarily work in PHP/Symfony. If we want to be really efficient/effective with Cypress, I guess we’d need to have a pool of frontend developers in the community who are willing to write tests in Cypress, as not all PHP/Symfony developers might be able to support easily (edited)
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Yes, that’s what I also shared with the team at Acquia, that we don’t have at present any QE’s or many front-end folk in the community and learning a new language could be challenging
Dennis Ameling (he/him) If we talk about long-term strategy, the idea is to separate Mautic’s backend and frontend more (a clear, well-defined backend API that can be used by external applications as well as Mautic’s own frontend for consistency). I can see a situation where the frontend is then built in a frontend framework like Angular/React/Vue. This is just an idea/suggestion that I discussed with @dongilbert and is by no means on the current roadmap.If we consider the situation above, then all frontend tests will need to be rewritten at some point anyway (I assume), so it might be more convenient/quicker to go with Panther for now. I personally don’t mind which testing tool will be used, but think looking at the current community contributors that Panther might indeed be faster to get us started for now
Dennis Ameling (he/him) … there doesn’t seem to be a clear winner at this point if I’m correct. If we go with Acquia’s preference it’d be Cypress - I’m OK with that. We’ll pretty much be assured of a continuous stream of contributions that way. Would you be OK with that @Abu Musa? Neither option seems to be perfect ATM
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Well it is not finalised yet - still being reviewed by the QE leadership internally (found that out today)
Dennis Ameling (he/him) Ah okay, shall we wait for that then?
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Yes - but I think it is also good for us to make our own research and not just follow without thinking it through and ensuring whatever tool we go for well work for us.
Dennis Ameling (he/him) OK - happy to write 1 or 2 tests with all tools after my vacation and then report back on the experience with all three. Would that help?
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Could indeed be helpful :slightly_smiling_face:
Dennis Ameling (he/him) Noted! :heavy_check_mark:

3️⃣ . 2️⃣ TPROD-24 Use a bot for CLA’s

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) It seems likely that the original list of contributors who have signed the agreement in Mautic Inc days isn’t going to be available for some time, if at all. I have the forms that have been submitted via Docusign so I think we should start with those ones on the list of signees, and then move forward.
Dennis Ameling (he/him) @Ruth Cheesley (she/her) sounds good. Anything you need from me to get this done? I think it’s not much more than installing a GitHub app if I remember correctly
Ruth Cheesley (she/her) I think it’s a case of installing the bot and adding the file. We can either hold the signatures within the repo or in a separate private repo I believe from memory, I think that might work better to avoid the faffing with CI every time we add a new name? What do you think?
Dennis Ameling (he/him) I think once the bot it set up there’s no need to update the CI manually moving forward I believe, guess the app itself will keep a separate database with everyone who signed. Would need to dive into that then, but can only do so in 2 weeks from now. Want me to check @Ruth Cheesley (she/her) or is that something you could/want to do?

3️⃣ . 3️⃣ TPROD-18 Create a triage team (edited)

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) At the moment we are triaging issues in a somewhat ad-hoc way.I would like us to form a triage team who would work together on a regular (maybe weekly) basis to work through new issues and PR’s, making sure that contributors are kept in the loop with the status of their issue/PR and keeping them moving through the process.:surfing_woman: Would you like to help us with triaging issues and/or PR’s?The most important skill (in my opinion) is endless patience, and having good written communication skills as you will be replying to comments and helping folk with their bug report or PR.A good working knowledge of Mautic is also pretty helpful!Comment below! :surfing_woman:

3️⃣ . 4️⃣ TPROD-16 + TPROD-21 + TPROD-15 Prepare a roadmap for the Mautic project

Ruth Cheesley (she/her) Now that we have documented the EOL status for all of our dependencies, we are starting to pull together a roadmap for the coming years.We will also be looking at the top voted ideas in and bringing in some of those as well.:chart_with_upwards_trend: Want to help with creating the roadmap? Comment below! You will need to have a couple. of hours a week available to dedicate to working on this project! :chart_with_upwards_trend:

4️⃣ Any other business - feel free to add below! :point_down: :


Ruth Cheesley (she/her), Dennis Ameling (he/him), Norman Pracht, rteijeiro, alanhartless

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