Sorry, I don’t touch gmass. I only work with double optin lists with Mautic. I just shared the campaign results because it seemed you think all emails go to promo if you send with Mautic. It is really not true and the title of this topic is misleading. I checked and 57% of those emails are gmail, and open rate share was 59% from gmail.
I only work with ongoing deliverability issues, not individual email cases, because the two things dont mix.
It’s obvious I can’t help you, as I still do t understand the whole setup and the purpose and you think my approach is wrong.
Im actually surprised why you want to use Mautic for cold outreach. I suggest you use mailwizz for that and api in the openers to mautic.
I hope you can fix your problems. Good luck.
@joeyk. Gmass is a free tool to show you where your email lands across various aged and filtered gmail accounts.
Email Deliverability Tester: Inbox, Spam, or Promotions?.
When you say you dont touch gmass, I am not asking you to install special software or another smtp. All you need to do is send your email campaign to 18 gmails listed on the website above and then using that site, you can see where they land.
It wont take more than 2 mins of your time.
Im actually surprised why you want to use Mautic for cold outreach. I suggest you use mailwizz for that and api in the openers to mautic.
I am NOT using Mautic for cold emails as stated before. I am using Mailwhizz for that.
It’s obvious I can’t help you, as I still do t understand the whole setup and the purpose and you think my approach is wrong
I have outlined my whole setup above. I am not convinced about your approach because it doesn’t make any sense with all due respect. I am not trying to argue for the sake of argument.
It doesn’t make sense because our results differ when we use other alternatives. If what you are saying is true, then my emails should land in promotions using Mailwizz if I am testing a small batch. Then over time, like you said before, they will eventually migrate to primary inbox. But this is not the case as I stated repeatedly before. I send even just one email from Mailwizz using unsubscribe tag and it lands in primary inbox.
This simple test alone tells me it has nothing to do individual email cases or having to send bulk emails over a set period of time to get them inboxed.
Do you see my point here? It is very simple.
If you feel like the evidence is incontrovertible and Mautic doesn’t suit your needs in as much as the way you want to use it, why keep posting about it? You have nothing to prove to anyone.
If you can’t adjust your use case, and the community perspectives don’t suit you, it doesn’t make anyone wrong in either case. We all appreciate being a part of your journey. If you decide to move on to another solution we would all understand. This is not an airport. You don’t have to announce your departure
@EJL I am stating my viewpoints and evidence to the contrary to IMPROVE mautic, not to yell or complain. I love mautic inside out. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I even love it more than Mailwizz because you can do a lot more.
That’s why I am resilient in finding a fix. I am not calling out Joey and telling him he’s wrong. I respect his diligence and feedback of the matter. It’s just based on my email marketing experience and what I have learned and tested over the years, his statement about the “waiting period” and individual email cases don’t make any sense to me personally.
I have tested numerous email servers and apps in the past before including mailchimp, sendgrid, mailwhizz, linode, etc. and this is the first time I have encountered an issue like this. It seems to be unique to Mautic. I am not the only one. Xuzo can attest. Maybe he needs to adjust something in his configuration, but I just showed three scenarios to prove that the issue is due to that unsubscribe token.
I don’t know what else I need to adjust on my end to make it work. And I don’t think if I send to a larger population that over time gmail will miraculously move my emails from promotions to primary inbox so long as that unsubscribe token is visible on my emails.
Is the mautic unsubscribe token programmed in way to get your emails inboxed over time when it senses you’re sending emails to let’s say more than 500 gmail recipients? Is this how the code works? I have never ever heard of such a thing with other platforms FYI.
Please confirm if this is truly the case for Mautic.
Thank you again for your relentless contribution. Again, please don’t take my tonality the wrong way. Again, a lot of restless nights testing this issue. Please understand that’s all I ask.
Have you opened up this issue on the Mautic GitHub? Posted your experience and data to Slack to discuss?
We can all discuss this like friends till we are old, but it’s an issue that would have to be addressed by the development team if this was a feature they would consider or observing the nature of open source so that YOU can develop a custom solution to fit your individual needs which I suspect is the route you are going to have to go.
We can’t solve this for you on the forum is my point. Almost all of us are users just like you, with a drop in from @moderators if they need. If you want to discuss this as a solution to improve Mautic check out GitHub
I haven’t. Thank you for giving me the acknowledgement. I will go ahead and post this thread in slack and open an issue on github.
Thanks again @EJL and @joeyk. I didnt mean to take a chunk of your time looking into our findings.
It wont take more than 2 mins of your time.
It is not 2 minutes, as I need to add a list of users, segment, etc.
But just for setting the record strait:
I guess, you read gmass’ own description about inboxing:
It is widely accepted that these engagement metrics play a role in determining where an email lands. With our seed addresses, the emails are essentially never opened, so there is never any engagement with them.
That means that the engagement component of delivery becomes irrelevant . So what this tool measures is where an email lands when there is no prior engagement. It measures what happens when you send a cold email to a new recipient.
On my part, I really can’t add anything anymore to this conversation.
But this really makes me really angry:
Nothing should land in promotion ever = 0 understanding how things work in scale.
You are testing your own Mautic.
Speak about your OWN setup, not Mautic in general.
Thanks joey again for your input.
Listen man. I read gmass’s description. Every time I get a new subscriber on my website with a gmail address my email gets delivered into their promotions. I know this because I don’t see any opened emails from those recipients. I know 100% they aren’t landing in spam. I don’t send spam emails and like I said before my domain and IP reputation is as good as gold.
So if I am getting NEW warm subscribers and my welcome email right off the bat is landing in promotions not because of the email content but because of the unsubscribe token, then they will probably NEVER open my original and subsequent emails.
Essentially, as gmass highlights, the outcome will become atrocious. My warm emails will become cold because no one in gmail is opening them up since they hardly open emails in promotions. The vicious cycle repeats itself. You see my point here?
Anyways. I will touch base with the developers on github and slack. This can be due to a particular setup since each mautic setup is different, but I find that hard to believe since my tests prove that the unsubscribe token is the culprit.
Regarding Bruno’s comment. I think what happened there was he was acting off emotions since he spent 3 weeks extensively testing this problem. No justification, but I hear you on that. Choose your words wisely and don’t generalize.
At the end of the day, like I said before, won’t trade mautic for anything. Thanks again for your contribution and if I get any updates or find a resolution I will update this post.
My own setup with a 2 dozen installs, and a whole bunch of guys with same problem…
If you test 10 other solutions, they ALL go into inbox, ONLY Mautic doesn’t sorry, but that’s just the truth, doesn’t matter who it makes angry or not! 
Mailwizz had a similar issue in 2015, it seems to be a header problem, solution was over here:
They made it work, would be fantastic if Mautic could also!
And by the way, all the other solutions are Can Spam Compliant, and they all land into inbox and not promotions.
So this CAN be done!
Hi, i checked all Mailwizz release since 1.3.6.5 and seems that there was no change adressing this. Issue. Could you plz also go through them and pinpoint if you see any?
Also: could you please read the ladt comment on the thread you suggested? What do you think about it?
Thx for your focus
Joey
@joeyk Hey joey. After further investigation and confirmation from my colleague, I believe you were right about the unsubscribe. My extreme apologies. Once more, I am sincerely sorry for the confusion I have caused in addition to consuming your time. This goes for any other contributor on this forum. Really sorry about this.
So like you said before, gmail automatically places your email in promotions as soon as it sees the unsubscribe. In their eyes, you are a marketer, otherwise if you were sending one to one emails why are you using an unsubscribe token?
I and xuzo also faced the same scenario with mailwhizz. It’s obvious with two different email platforms and two different email experts, arriving at the same conclusion further proves that it’s out of mautic’s control. It’s like a preponderance of the evidence. This is how gmail treats emails with unsubscribe language.
Overtime, like you mentioned before, more emails will land in primary inbox assuming you encourage more of your subscribers to whitelist and reply to your emails. Then again, if most of them aren’t seeing your emails because they land in promotions, how will they see your message to reply back?
Google is a pain in the…I honestly hate them. Lol. It’s just one of those things we just have to think outside of the box to get your subscribers to move your emails from promotion to primary inbox and getting into the habit of replying to some of your messages.
This now makes more sense to me. Sorry again for leading you down a rabbit hole.
Hi,
There is no need for apologies, this conversation was extremely useful, and needed in this forum.
Any conversation about better email practices is welcome as it is the basis of email marketing.
Regards:
Joey
Sorry Michael but I have a different opinion. how many people do actually responds on forum ? and if someone is trying to do that, I really appreciate that instead of judging the tone of how you write…also in this virutal world, its very easy to interpret things wrongly…lets value people who are atleast giving you advice for your own problems…
I realize that I’m jumping into the discussion late, but is there anything that I can do to improve my chances for emails going to the inbox for users who have actually subscribed to my emails? I have volunteers for my non-profit who sign up for information, and I’m seeing that my mautic responses are going to the gmail spam/promotion boxes. At first, I thought that the problem might be due to the fact that I use a theme in my emails, but even when I remove that, I’m still having issues. Is there a way to indicate that this person has subscribed?
Thanks,
Robert
No there is no such mechanism, because spammers would just abuse it. So I guess the discussion here makes it clear that it is all about your reputation. If you have a proper configuration and you do not spam, you should be rarely landing in the spam folder. If you do, then there is probably something wrong that you need to fix. To get out of the promotion folder, just if the receiver makes sufficient interaction with your email. One thing that helps is to encourage people to respond to your email, that will help a lot for your reputation.