Agree with @kuzmany that it makes sense to have an option to disable it on transactional emails. We use those for sign-up confirmations, password reset emails, etc. - great idea!
Marketers always try to find a way to inbox better. They will test their inboxing with 1-2 letters, and realise, that they go to promo. Why? Because sending 1-2 emails with no previous interaction (and with unsub header present) will land you in promo. However once you start going big and send 2k-100k/day, then you’ll be rewarded for admitting you are sending bulk by usage of the unsubscribe header and bulk precedence.
Altough you’ll test will perform better Gmail and other ESPs will penalize bulk email if the unsub header is not present and you are cought sending bulk.
I don’t want to be a pain in the rare, but maybe the following set of rules could work really well:
- If there is an unsubscribe in the email, then the unsubscribe header and bulk precedence should be added.
- Where you set the extra email headers - you could turn off bulk + unsub (but if you add the unsub anyway, than this would be overwritten)
- As Adrian suggested one on one emails wouldn’t have any of these header items.
@joeyk based on unsubscribe link is very smooth idea. I like it
I think that it makes sense to remove the header if the email is generally a personal email as @adiux suggests. In this case I would class that as the ‘send direct to contact’ one-off emails that can only be sent one at a time and are going direct to a contact.
I feel that we should NOT automatically remove it from transactional emails for a couple of reasons:
A contact may wish to amend the kind of transactional emails that they receive - if the sender has not included a link to a preference centre or an unsub link in the body of the email they will not be easily able to find that information
Transactional emails can still be sent in bulk, are always automated and rarely sent to just one person. Some marketers may not know the difference or try to abuse transactional if it does not have the list-unsubscribe header to indicate a bulk sent/automated mail
What I think could be an option for consideration is to have a setting in the email configuration that would enable the marketer to opt in to removing the list-unsubscribe header. This would need to link out to some clear documentation on the risks associated with this and what kind of use case this would suit.
Of course we would need to look at if this would work with third party providers and I would want to ensure that we are really clear about why you should not set the unsub headers off just to avoid being seen as bulk mail.
We are talking about custom header precedence Bulk. This header is set just for segments emails
I think detection unsubscribe link in email is really nice solution decide put unsubscribe header to email.
+1 for this feature. We would love to use Mautic more as a CRM.
This is an excellent suggestion.
Thanks for all your contributions. I try to summarize and propose a solution for further discussion:
Mautic sends 3 types of emails:
- Custom Email: One on one personal emails
- Marketing Emails: E.g. newsletters
- Transactional Emails: E.g. subscribe to a newsletter
I think we agree:
- Custom Email: Custom Emails should not have any unsubscribe or other indication that this email comes from a list. It should be the same as if the person sends it from their personal email client.
- Marketing Emails: Should remain the same as they are now (bulk and unsubscribe). And it should also not be possible to remove the unsubscribe header. Since this is just best practice and will only hurt the client’s domain reputation in the long run.
3. Transactional Emails
So we only need to talk about transactional emails. I checked how others are doing it:
- Mailchimp Subscribe to list: no precedence, no unsubscribe
- Amazon SES verification successful: no precedence, no unsubscribe
- Apple store delivery notification: no precedence, no unsubscribe
- Github Issue notification: Precedence: list, List-Unsubscribe
As mentioned before, I also think it can be risky and has the potential for misuse. But since Transactional emails are only available in Campaigns and Forms (normally one-to-one communication), I think it could be ok.
How to turn it on or off for transactional emails
While I like the idea that the user has not to do anything I’m not sure the consequences will be clear to the marketer user. That’s while I propose that we have a setting where the admin user can turn it on or off. This gives also the possibility to display a help text as an explanation.
- Personal Email: Remove it (unsubscribe)
- Marketing Email: Keep it as is
- Transactional Email: Add an email setting that turns it (bulk and unsubscribe) on or off
Was there any progress on this?
Its limiting Mautic in a fairly significant way from being realistically integrated with 3rd party systems and specifically CRMs with 1-1 comms.
Actually, I was waiting on community feedback on my proposed solution.
Also need to take into consideration the fact the current “Unsubscribe” option marks the users as “Do Not Contact” which is entirely incorrect. “Unsubscribe” and “Do Not Contact” are entirely different things. Please reference Send transactional emails to "Do Not Contact" contacts for more about this.
As @da644 writes it is a basic need to be able to send transactional emails to an unsubscribed contact, the “Do Not Contact” property is too strict and makes it very difficult to integrate mautic properly with any ecommerce or CRM platform.
Is there any news on this feature implementation?
I am not aware of anything new on this feature but I do know that there is plans and already a patch for transactional emails to ignore the DNC settings by a contact…
I have implemented the patch and tested - works fine
Hey @mikew can you please share the link, I cannot find this patch on google.
Basically is just adding this line:
‘ignoreDNC’ => ‘transactional’ === $type,
I do not remember, but I think yes
Thanks, that worked good, implemented and tested.
What specifically got approved and implemented for the personal /transactional emails ?
Did we remove all references to bulk and unsubscribe in the headers? or was it that it ignores the DNC flag against the contact
I tested it today for both marketing and transactional from a campaign and they had the same unsub headers.
Very keen to not have to run a seperate instance with hardcoded logic to handle api calls for individual emails
I remember a massively heated conversation about this back in the day (the gmass guy haha)
ISP have got more sophisticated since then and simply blacklist you if you do anything silly
Yeah I remember that conversation, learned a lot.
This will be solved in M5. Personail email won’t have unsub header.